GetMeta:Water Cooler/Bottle1

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edit index GetMeta:Water Cooler/Bottle1

this is an archive, or bottle, of prior water cooler talk...


Here's a topic: Do you think wiki's are good for use to start a discussion forum, or not? The question came up recently on an ibiblio listserv, and I thought a wiki-app could be better than Slashcode or Scoop, etc, at least for academic purposes or document collaboration. Thoughts?? -proteus 11:29, 31 May 2004 (EDT)

I think it is just a new form that hasn't been tried on a mass scale yet. On newsgroups and mailing lists all the past, including some very interesting threads eventually is lost, except as it might have been saved in a faq. FJB 00:12, 21 Jul 2004 (EDT)

Yes, I suppose wiki's could have that same problem, if pages or comments are deleted or moved. There is probably also a point where the wiki technology becomes unwieldy for a forum with a huge number of users, say like a Slashdot or the like. -proteus 23:46, 21 Jul 2004 (EDT)

GetWiki now supports forums, which are just special talk pages... -proteus 11:39, 24 Oct 2004 (EDT)

wikispam blacklist

I've deployed the blacklist from in GetWiki:2.0 for GetMeta and Wikinfo. This simply checks against preview/save submissions for matches at GetWiki:Blacklist, and then shows an error page without either previewing or saving. It doesn't log the submission or block the user. -proteus 09:08, 14 Nov 2005 (EST)

I've added a hard check against the popular usage of the invisible "div", due to more attacks on Wikinfo and GetMeta today. Normal usage wouldn't be affected, but the common link spam method is blocked, even if they submit a non-banned url. -proteus 03:40, 12 Dec 2005 (EST)

Despite the wider net it throws, I've refined the GetWiki blacklist code to actually block from the domain name, regardless of the subdomain, IF that base domain name is listed, or otherwise, this will ban any url containing any blacklisted url. To explain:
  • A "blacklist.url" entry in our blacklist will block a spammer submitting "test.blacklist.url", "1234.blacklist.url", and so on, ad infinitum
  • The granularity of the blacklist is still used; so, if "test.blacklist.url" is blacklisted, but not "blacklist.url", then "another-test.blacklist.url" will be blocked, but not "blah.blacklist.url" or "www.blacklist.url", and so on

This should have little impact on performance, and if someone complains that their entire domain or subdirectory is banned, they should consider why they are hosting spam in the first place. -proteus 13:00, 26 Dec 2005 (EST)


Okay, references (1) have now been enabled in a "beta" form (2), and let me know about any problems with complex pages.

  1. see for discussion
  2. see Beta
-proteus 18:32, 25 Jan 2007 (EST)

JA: I personally will never use this. My experience with it on Wikipedia is that it makes the edit window version almost unreadable, and leads to poorer citations over time. Jon Awbrey 22:30, 25 Jan 2007 (EST)

I know what you mean, and you don't have to use it, of course. I'm not sure I'll use it much, either, but I got sick of all the complaining over on Wikinfo ;) -proteus 23:03, 25 Jan 2007 (EST)

broken links/short urls

JA: Why are incoming links not working anymore? I noticed that you shortened the URLs, but those don't seem to work either. For example: Go hereweblink and click on the Charles Sanders Peirce link. Gratia In Futuro, Jon Awbrey 12:52, 12 Mar 2007 (EDT)

Works for me. I had some trouble last night, getting it all going, but as server/browser cache updates, it should be working fine. BTW, I chose the "-" character in the URL because it worked, but it also prevented me from just doing what everyone else does, in using something like "/wiki/". -proteus 14:16, 12 Mar 2007 (EDT) - ...Got it finalized, it seems... -proteus 22:35, 12 Mar 2007 (EDT)
Oh, and why do you indent my posts? That's what they do on Wikipedia, and let's not get like them.

I indent posts because it's easier to read and see who is talking to whom. Believe me, it has nothing to to with WP - though in the little bit of editing I did there 3 years ago, I did see them doing it (they mainly seemed to like bullet points a lot, I recall). Anyway, I got it from other discussion forums, like Kuro5shin (which did it automatically). I think I edited about 5 pages on WP back then, and have never edited since, even when Jimbo was threatening lawsuits against GetWiki via email and trying to pull those old, feeble Objectivist arguments against my Kantianism. Since then, I just read about WP via people like you (and the others who come around Wikinfo after being chewed up on WP) and get sick to my stomach when I look around there, what with all the witch hunts and and groupthink. Any vitriol and venom I might have against WP is abstract and due to my ethical beliefs that what they are doing to good people (behind the scenes, mostly) is just plain wrong, and for it to be popular is even more so. Most people who use WP as a resource have no idea that they are supporting academic fascism. -proteus 14:16, 12 Mar 2007 (EDT)

opportunities for collaboration

Inquiry Driven Systems

I will be collecting some materials and developing some proposals here just in case anybody is still around. Jon Awbrey 12:30, 16 Nov 2006 (EST)

Sounds great, Jon. I'll try to participate as I can, but I'm on a big vacation right now... -proteus 00:22, 18 Nov 2006 (EST)

Initial Reading List

Introduction to the work I did in Systems Engineering at Oakland University (the one in Michigan) during the 1990's. It very badly needs reformatting, which I will try to do in wikitalk either here or at Wikinfo, but I could use some advice on what sort of Creative Commons license is best for a signed article.

You can use any license you like - here or on Wikinfo - as it's your work (as long as it authorizes us to read it, of course, and for Google to index it). Here, as you're a sysop, you can just protect the page (then only sysops can edit it), as I didn't want to get into "signed articles" on GetMeta (on Wikinfo, if you want to do a signed article, verify your identity with Fred, etc). -proteus 01:28, 24 Nov 2006 (EST)

I'd use a dedicated page(set), linked up where relevant, for the below - like Theme One Program, or the like... -proteus 11:06, 29 Nov 2006 (EST)

Theme One Program

cool books/media

Just as on Wikinfo (), perhaps we could list "cool books", "cool media" (or a similarly geeky page title) we're inspired by, related to the techie themes on GetMeta? They could be non-fiction books, new DVDs, instructional materials, etc. What do you think? -proteus 13:42, 17 Dec 2006 (EST)

  • Soul-Ware ?
  • Feed Your Head !
  • for the inner geek
  • tech media
  • tech-warez

multi-threaded wreads

Hobbes's preoccupation with the sources of human irrationality clashes rudely with the "rational actor" approach that many commentators project into his works. Despite a few memorable and citable passages, he does not conceive of man as an economic animal, engaging in preemptive strikes. The pitiful and snarled mess which is the human mind cannot be painted with such a monochrome palette. To help us disentangle the complexities of Hobbes's position, I would suggest, at least provisionally, a tripartite scheme. Human behavior is motored not by self-interest alone, but rather by passions, interests, and norms. (Stephen Holmes, p. xviii).

Stephen Holmes, "Introduction" to Thomas Hobbes, Behemoth, or The Long Parliament, Ferdinand Tönnies (ed.), Stephen Holmes (intro.), University of Chicago Press, Chicago, IL, 1990.

For the most part, real behavior proceeds at the subconscious or inarticulate conscious level of its subjective meaning. The person behaving in a certain way "feels" this vaguely, rather than being explicitly aware of the source of his behavior. Mostly his behavior is governed by habit or instinct. Only occasionally, and in the uniform behavior of great masses often only in the case of a few individuals, is the subjective meaning of such behavior, be it rational or irrational, raised to the level of true consciousness. Really effective, that is, truly conscious and clearly meaningful behavior, is in reality always a marginal case. (Weber 1925/1993, p. 54).

Max Weber (1925/1993), Basic Concepts in Sociology, H.P. Secher (trans.), Citadel Press, New York, NY, 1993. First published as Chapter 1 of Wirtschaft und Gesellschaft (Economics and Society), J.C.B. Mohr Verlag, Tübingen, Germany, 1925.

wreads discussion

Great! Maybe "cool wreads", just as a suggestion, but you could wikify this and put it on the main page. Any other books? I can add my "Web of Life" listing from Wikinfo as well... -proteus 00:19, 23 Jan 2007 (EST)

JA: I was thinking along the lines of those columns you see in the back pages of some phancy mags, where the staff gives excerpts from what they're currently reading, but I was trying to avoid evaluative terms, even like "cool", as that has a tendency to turn it into another sort of column. Jon Awbrey 09:14, 23 Jan 2007 (EST)

Looks good. Should everything be in one place, or just the books as you have them on the Main Page, with a separate full-listings page at, say GetMeta:Wreads?? -proteus 13:20, 24 Jan 2007 (EST)

JA: I like the connotation of "water cooler", as I was thinking more of a low pressure place to mention books we've started reading — as it often takes me years to finish one — or returned to again. And if I put excerpts on the front page — aside from the small print being hard on these old eyes — then I start feeling the "duty" to say something "significant". So maybe just a link to this section would be good. I'll try a couple of options. Jon Awbrey 13:56, 24 Jan 2007 (EST)

Okay, here is fine, and I made the font a bit bigger, 85% of default size... -proteus 16:41, 24 Jan 2007 (EST)
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